The state of the forum (ETV)

Wilsons complete post [hidden link - please register]

WILSONSAND wrote:This is my 1000th post. Surely I should be satisfied with it, but I'm not, probably because I am not sure to continue..
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At first...thank you Wilson for this post.and in absence of brudgon: congrats for the 1000.

I want to say somethimg to this, because we as moderators have been adressed, and maybe it can lead to a dicussion that will change things to the better
(though I cant help but be sceptical).

You say we moderators protect the so-called "White Knights". And I agree, we did protect them. But may I remind you that, only a couple months ago, no "liker" could post in the webstream or other threads without being mobbed. Slowfox was practically the only one who still had the balls to go out there and he was insulted and dragged through the dirt. Models were called webcam bitches and prostitutes, just because they dared to appear in the webshows. We had to step in because we wanted to make it possible for everyone to say his opinion without the fear of being harassed and called names.
At that time, you would find my like under every positive post in the webstream thread, not because I agreed with everything (I dont watch the webshows), but to encourage those who liked the shows to come back and make an argument. Finally, there was one last eruption and now this thread is halfway back to a normal level, though it is still the place most of the personal stuff happens.

But everything comes at a price:
I was called ETV-lawyer and worse, it was hinted that I (and other mods) am steered by ETV, or by members that are connected to ETV. That I have something to hide in general. The impression was given and still prevails, that ETV has influence on our decisions.
In the course of the events we lost fcn, as he was put on read-only, and maybe others who may have decided to post no more.
Nonetheless it is my opinion that it was necessary, because no discussion was possible back then.

If the pendulum swings to the other side, if you are personally attacked and insulted, you will find me at your side. I think the time has not come yet.
Yes, there are posts asking to delete repetitive complaints or saying dont attack this and that model. Are they backed up by moderators? No. You are free to make your statements, but you may be contested by those members who have a different opinion. This is what a discussion is about. If you feel personally attacked in a manner you have the impression is inappropriate, please tell me or any mod of your trust (if there is one) and we shall discuss it.

You are right, we must find a way to deal with critics in a more appropriate way. It must be possible to say that you dont like a model or her show in a respectful manner without being bullied. How this should be done can be discussed here. Very often an intervenence of mods does more harm than it helps, it would be better to reach an agreement that everyone can accept. Regarding the current state of the forum, that might be difficult. But we can try.

I agree, both extreme positions in their current form are bad for the forum. The question is what to do about it. Would you like us step in more often? Should we have even more rules? Delete more posts or ban the protagonists? Who should be warned or banned and for what reason? At which exact point does a discussion change from argumentative to personal. When is a complaint/praise repetitive? Where does enforcement of rules end and where does censorship begin?
You may not have a precise answer to these questions, and we dont have it either.
This leaves only one approach: to be as liberal as possible. This is the opinion of all current mods. And we try that, with all the human faults and errors we may have made in the past and will make in the future.

Since I am mod, I have deleted thousands of posts. Literally. I guess 95% of them were comments or requests in videothreads, furthermore many posts of premium stuff, models personal shit, posts in other languages than english, things like that.
How many posts in a real discussion have I removed? Six. I recall every single one of them because it was so special to me and I did it with a feeling of unease and after giving it some thought. When I became mod, I was told several times to always think twice before deleting a discussion post.
I have also asked members to edit their posts a couple times, because they went too far. Every one of them did so, mostly they agreed in the end. I have edited a handful of posts, because the member was not available. I have given one warning which lastet two weeks with no further consequences because of repeated insults to a model. This is it. You must work really hard to get banned or punished here.

For everybodys information, I would like to explain how moderators decisions and forum rules are made:
We meet on Skype on a more or less regular basis. Each mod can present his issues and they are discussed. If necessary, there will be a voting. But it has never occurred, because we always reached an agreement. The site-owner has never exercized his superior rights. As an example: the webstream-issue was discussed for weeks before we eventually did what we did. We foresaw what implications this would have and we were right.
Not ever have I seen any influence by ETV. If this should happen, I will quit as a mod. We tried to contact them to talk about the exclusive shows and videos of those shows, but as far as I know there was no reaction. They contacted us once to have that Karry-clip removed.
Sometimes members have issues and tell a mod. We dsicuss it among us in the chat.
There are no conspiracies or anything. None of us has any financial interests or other advantages. We do this as a hobby and all spend many hours working here. We try to be objective as mods, but have our personal views of course and I think we also have the right to state them (as members) by likes, comments and reps, as has every other member, too.

Let me add this: I agree to a lot of what you said about ETV. The nightshows are mostly dull, often with casts that one year ago would have caused a riot here, and obviously we can call ourselves lucky they at least reinstalled some parts of the old studio (after months) instead of this totally black hole. But I still find shows and casts I like and watch.
But this is only my personal opinion and it is worth as much as yours or any other members opinion. This forum is not there to represent the opinions of the moderators, but those of all members. As a mod, I´m only here to ensure that the rules are not too badly broken. But as a member, I want to state my opinions about a show or a model too, and no one must feel bullied because I (or any other mod) express a different view. Or should it be for mods like "Hey, go clean the videothreads and shut the fuck up“ ?

We cant do anything about the quality of the shows, it is their company and they are free to do with it what they want. We have no influence on what they do, they have no influence on what we do. We do our best to protect the models privacy. We respect ETV´s rights to market the non-fta stuff. Thats all.

You are dissatisfied with them, and I do understand that. I still hope you can find something you like on this forum.
I have „known“ you for a long time, Wilson. I would be sad if you lost all trust in us Mods or even leave. We can do no wonders.
The discussions are led by the members, trying to force them into this or that direction is not possible without harm being done, as seen in the webcam thread.

All I can do is try to convince everybody, that the topic ETV is not worth fighting a bloody war. We are not discussing the state of the world or religion here, but an erotic channel. Lets not lose the fun in this, the forum was made for everybodys pleasure and recreation.

Actually, these last sentences are similar to my first statement as mod ~1 year ago. What did it help? Nothing.

Sorry for this very long post. Sadly I am not a good forum writer.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:

outside wrote:the core business was, is and probably will be the fta shows because these cost the most money and bring the most money, too
So why webshow shifts have been the first filled in? So why Sabrina and Gia featured only at webshows during their last (I really hope it was) stint? Why Kia has featured last sunday replacing Michelle? Girls get more money from web, that's the truth.

you are writing always about core business and you are wrong with it.
maybe or for sure they give too much attention for the webshows but nonetheless are the fta shows the core business.

[hidden link - please register] (courtesy WhiteCat from italian forum)
Nothing more to add.
More lucky next time.

P.S. what about test pattern next time?

Watcher wrote:(I had a look in once ... I'll wait for them to grow up before I take another, about 10 years should do it).

No hurry, take your time. Let's say about 60 or 70 years.
Or, even better, never.

outside wrote:They are going to fall down. Just a matter of time.
Ressel keeps this bankruptcy business alive because he has other interests (maybe related to some politicians who own the former washing machine factory where studios are located, address is in your avatar) in that country we well know. But sooner or later he will stop the aggressive treatment and your friends will be kicked in their asses as soon as possible. And they will kick yours. I am already laughing.

About the uploader, I know their lawyers, he could sleep between two pillows.
Maybe the expensive surprise might go to someone else, thinking about RIAA rights.

ROFL
The usual nonsense. Pity pretty much everything is wrong

Thank gawd I don't know how to download files then, could have been in trouble there.

Tifosi wrote:

HvB wrote:Yep, and this services store the IP of the uploder.

How about the downloader, typing this with a quivering hand.

The Client is solely responsible for the content uploaded and stored on Luckyshare.net servers. The Client understands and agrees that Luckyshare.net reserves the right to delete, move, archive (including account information) or edit any content that violates the Agreement or any law, or is otherwise unacceptable. In this case Luckyshare.net reserves the right to terminate the Client's access to the site, without prior notice and at its sole discretion. What is more, in cases of infringement of the Agreement by the Client Luckyshare.net will actively participate in helping legal authorities and the government with gathering and providing the information on the Client, the Client's website, illegal or obscene information maintenance and individuals capable of acquiring access or using the illegal or obscene content.

The ToS say yes.
I doubt the ToS of other filesharers are in any way different.

HvB wrote:[quote='outside']Girls get more money from web, that's the truth.
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It has been a miserable failure in their own words.

Contradictio in adiecto. How can they earn more when they fail?

outside wrote:Premium videos are available even at porn BB /quote]
Yep, and this services store the IP of the uploder. Guess someone will have an expensive surprise in the near future.

They are going to fall down. Just a matter of time.
Ressel keeps this bankruptcy business alive because he has other interests (maybe related to some politicians who own the former washing machine factory where studios are located, address is in your avatar) in that country we well know. But sooner or later he will stop the aggressive treatment and your friends will be kicked in their asses as soon as possible. And they will kick yours. I am already laughing.

About the uploader, I know their lawyers, he could sleep between two pillows.
Maybe the expensive surprise might go to someone else, thinking about RIAA rights.

HvB wrote:Yep, and this services store the IP of the uploder.

How about the downloader, typing this with a quivering hand.

outside wrote:Girls get more money from web, that's the truth.
...
It has been a miserable failure in their own words.

Contradictio in adiecto. How can they earn more when they fail?

outside wrote:Premium videos are available even at porn BB

Yep, and this services store the IP of the uploder. Guess someone will have an expensive surprise in the near future.

outside wrote:the core business was, is and probably will be the fta shows because these cost the most money and bring the most money, too
So why webshow shifts have been the first filled in? So why Sabrina and Gia featured only at webshows during their last (I really hope it was) stint? Why Kia has featured last sunday replacing Michelle? Girls get more money from web, that's the truth.

you are writing always about core business and you are wrong with it.
maybe or for sure they give too much attention for the webshows but nonetheless are the fta shows the core business.

zxcv wrote:

HvB wrote:Because you mention it three times in one post and use it as reasoning why it shouldn't be discussed.
So I would like to know the validity of the reasoning before I consider thinking about the rest. If the prerequisite fails or is at least not reliable, there is no reason to waste a thought about the conclusion.

So what you are doing now …. Ruining the whole discussion …..or just entertaining ….

In all cases ......If you really want to denounce my claims about the failure of the web project ….and prove the validity of yours ....then come in the right thread and start argument about this ……..And leave the current discussion for another complements which comes in the same line with the main idea .

At least this would give you the chance to build a clear and honest discussion …..instead of .." Mix things up and lowering the whole argument into bullshit " .

I didn't claim neither success nor failure. So the validity is simple: no claim, nothing to prove.
You claim failure: please prove.

the night shows have been bad/ boring/ uninspired/ uninteresting before the ELS have started
Maybe right but webshows were the KO blow to a groggy boxeur.

the core business was, is and probably will be the fta shows because these cost the most money and bring the most money, too
So why webshow shifts have been the first filled in? So why Sabrina and Gia featured only at webshows during their last (I really hope it was) stint? Why Kia has featured last sunday replacing Michelle? Girls get more money from web, that's the truth.

the webshows are only an experiment with either extra costs or extra money (I doubt that anyone knows it exactly) and at the moment not a failed experiment.
It has been a miserable failure in their own words. They still survive because there is the poultry. Circumvention of incapables.

the fta shows are the core business for etv but the webshows are the "core" topic for some posters. especially for some guys who are afraid that they miss a single nipple.
As I have already pointed maybe in this topic to, this would be the funniest part of the story.

Let's start to have fun together.
Premium videos are available even at porn BB (of course for free).
This is the place where some of them deserve to feature (no problem to name them: Alice, Elmar, Jade, Rose and Tiffani, aka the paraculas, sorry for the neologism, but it is untranslatable).

OT: The idea about channels offering pay per view webshows featuring their models is nothing new btw, other channels are doing this as well:

- Studio 66 TV (UK)
- Babestation TV (UK)
- xxxPanded TV (UK)

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thousands dots
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as well as SexySat TV in a rather unsuccessful way due to their technical incompetence

I don't see any difference between the services of the channels above and ETV, apart from people solely complaining about the ETV extra service. Viewers of the other channels seem to be pretty happy, even though they either have to pay on a per min. base or have to spend plenty of money to tip the girls. I don't wanna defend ETV's idea of putting on a web show, and I for myself never watch them, but many viewers seem to enjoy what they get if they spend a little money.

outside wrote:The point is there has been the "asset misappropriation" from TV to web, since ETVGold has been launched in 2011.
Web has becomen the core business, TV shows are just leftovers and crumbs.
So it has been inevitable that webshows have becomen the focus of discussion here too.

the night shows have been bad/ boring/ uninspired/ uninteresting before the ELS have started and mentioning the webshows make the fta shows in the past look better than they were.
etv airs 23/7 liveshows but nonetheless most and especially a certain groups posts only about the ELS. of course without having seen only 1 of these shows live. ;)
the core business was, is and probably will be the fta shows because these cost the most money and bring the most money, too.
the webshows are only an experiment with either extra costs or extra money (I doubt that anyone knows it exactly) and at the moment not a failed experiment.

the fta shows are the core business for etv but the webshows are the "core" topic for some posters. especially for some guys who are afraid that they miss a single nipple.

The point is there has been the "asset misappropriation" from TV to web, since ETVGold has been launched in 2011.
Web has becomen the core business, TV shows are just leftovers and crumbs.
So it has been inevitable that webshows have becomen the focus of discussion here too.