Censorship: let's try to understand something more.

Merc wrote:..what about moving to a not-EU country?

Even if for example etv moves to China, they show their shows in Europe so they have to follow the rules.

Merc wrote:..what about moving to a not-EU country?

[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]

or the italian version:

[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]

Art.4 should be the problem.

..what about moving to a not-EU country?

I know it is boring and you all discussed the theme 1000 times but as pay tv channel you don´t have this problem.

Thanks vappiano and co. for the research but with smartcard i see no prob and i would pay for this card.......

Best regards,

FCN

Thanks a lot to all the contributors.
I've just some holiday days left so, going back from the beach, I've some time to spend for this research... and to write another book...

I found the new "Ofcom-guideline" (Revised version: 27 July 2011):
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]

Let’s pay attention to this part:

<<< Adult chat broadcasters should:

•not broadcast shots of bare breasts before 22:00;
•at no time broadcast invasive shots of presenters‟ bodies. Ofcom cautions against
physically intrusive, intimate shots of any duration; and against less intrusive shots
that may become unacceptable by virtue of their being prolonged;
•at no time broadcast anal, labial or genital areas or broadcast images of presenters
touching their genital or anal areas either with their hand or an object;
•ensure that presenters‟ clothing adequately covers their anal, labial or genital areas.
They should also avoid adjusting their clothing (including clutching or bunching)
which results in anal, labial or genital areas being exposed;
•at no time broadcast images of any real or simulated sex acts (these include vaginal
or anal intercourse, masturbation, fellatio or cunnilingus);
•at no time include shots of presenters spitting onto their or others‟ bodies, or include
shots of presenters using other liquids, such as oil and lotions, on their genital or anal
areas.
•at no time broadcast shots of presenters using liquids of a sort or in a way which
suggests the liquid is ejaculate;
•at no time broadcast sexually explicit language; and
•ensure any sexual language broadcast is restrained, and avoid its use altogether
before midnight.

Licensees should take particular care if two or more presenters appear together on screen. If
there is any contact between the presenters of an erotic or sexual nature (for example
kissing, stroking, or contact between thighs, breasts or genital areas) or any miming or
simulation of a sexual act performed by one presenter on another, in Ofcom‟s view there is a
high risk of causing serious or widespread offence against generally accepted standards. >>>

Personal considerations:

These guidelines are a further restriction for liveshows.
The following 2 parts need an accurate interpretation, because they seem to be connected:

-at no time broadcast images of any real or simulated sex acts (these include vaginal
or anal intercourse, masturbation, fellatio or cunnilingus);

-Licensees should take particular care if two or more presenters appear together on screen. If
there is any contact between the presenters of an erotic or sexual nature (for example
kissing, stroking, or contact between thighs, breasts or genital areas) or any miming or
simulation of a sexual act performed by one presenter on another,
So: no French kisses, no body licking between models, no simulation of masturbation or sexual acts.
---

As regard “fellatio” and “cunnilingus”, they are “sexual acts” which entail the presence of 2 or more persons, so the simulation should entail the presence of 2 or more persons too.
(HvB: probably I’m wrong, but according my interpretation banana action should be banned if the banana is in place of the gun).
Hence this should be forbidden:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig] [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig] [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]

But this should be allowed (since there is no contact and they are not simulations of “sexual acts” , according the definition given in the main post. I include the famous “aircocks” or “fingercocks” . Being performed by just one model it cannot be the simulation of something requiring 2 or more persons ):
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig] [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig] [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]

In fact EliteNights received a warning by Ofcom for some contents:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
but “aircocks” and “fingercocks” continue to be aired.
----------------
These should be the restrictions (Uk guidelines are the worst case, I suppose).
I’d like to know if other EU members have similar guidelines. Feel free to share such informations here.
Thanks in advance.

@ Nighthawk

Many thanks for your reply.
I will be very short about politicians:
according to me they have the main responsibility of what happens in our beloved world.
Look at what happens in the world and you can understand what high consideration I have about them…

About “removal of “Smss and Gold Members services”:
I’m not against Gold members services. I just think that smss containing requests, being showed on screen and plasmas, are the greatest potential source of risks for ETV, because it’s easy to demonstrate a direct correlation between a person who pays and a performance which could provoke sexual instincts in himself/herself.
Maybe it would be better to have Gold Member services only for “calls + compliments smss”, knowing that the requests would not be showed on screen/plasmas.
As regard calendars, books, albums, etc… they could be ordered also via email.

Greetings

Good evening Mr_vappiano68

great comment and statement. Hard work with many efforts [*]

I agree with you in almost all but not in this:

vappiano68 wrote:Removal of SMSs and Gold Members services

1.) You forgot the viewers they like it very much to send their favorite some nice words via plasma and to asking the regie or moderator for
request to give a short message if she will get free.
2.) Someone of us ordered books, albums, calendars. The easiest way for sending data are the SMS's.
3.) I hate it very much to spend the most of money for the Telecom or SMS - provider.
4.) The gold service is one to make it cheaper for the callers and writers only but there is no difference to the callers and writers
without that. Or do you think the gold members are speaking other with the Ladies.



Of course the SMS service is an additional possibility for ETV to earn more money I know.
Better than the proclaiming of "There was a big trouble between Sabrina and Scarlet" call for getting know more (3,00 €/min)

Now to the main part of your great comment: Censorship

vappiano68 wrote:With the typical cuts always performed by ETV, proving the contrary would be so difficult that only a crazy could think to take a legal action against ETV for this reason

Right words we all are thinking the same but what are the responsible persons are thinking.
What ETV is showing could be too much for some of them official.
Maybe in reality they are watching too and maybe getting excited but to outside they play a moral watcher.
So double moral is the biggest problem (for me). I don't know did you follow the news of Germany during the last 12 months or
a little bit more? I mean the reports about the sexual abuses of children by priests in churchy facilities.
The same persons declare sexual abstinence in the publish.

Let's go back in history a little bit.
There was a pope at the end of the 15th century named Alexander the 6th. The head of the catholic church. He had orgies with a lot of women in one night and this for several years before he got impeached but he explained the poor people keep the rules of the church in your life, visit the church every Sunday and have sexual relation for making of children only.
End of the little trip in history.

The same once upon a time and today. Double moral former and now in the policy, church and society.
We are able to visit a brothel but watch nice Ladies in TV (maybe even naked) it is forbidden because in the night ?
The church and politicians of conservative parties damn sexuality but at home they watch p...o in the Internet or visit a brothel
or do more horrible things.

A little anecdote at the end:
I grew up in the former east part of Germany. We had naked beaches on the Baltic sea cost and on lakes inside.
After the reunion of Germany when the former West-Germans came therefore fore the first time they couldn't shut her mouth and they astonished a lot. What a difference I was thinking. They could visit a brothel and could buy sexual (pornographic journals) we not.
To be honest we handled this in a so much more free way and easy going.

We don't know how the brains of the responsible persons are working...
It is only what I think

At last: Mr_vappiano68 you invited us for a statement and here is my.

Greets (and sorry for the long one...)

If prostitution is proven, the question of criminal liability of customers of prostitutes will arise.
This topic is presented to legislators in more and more countries...

fman1 wrote:To my knowledge, a European law must be transposed in all member countries of the EEC not to be in contradiction with existing national laws.
In which country, the legislative work ever done?

In theory true.
But the European Court of Justice found a solution for that:
Notwithstanding the fact that directives were not originally thought to be binding before they were implemented by member states, the European Court of Justice developed the doctrine of direct effect where unimplemented or badly implemented directives can actually have direct legal force.

So even though they are not intended to have direct legal force, the court treats them as if they have.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:so Rochbitch are also a good example for different handling of the same rules in one country and what can happen to someone when the rules are getting stricter or someone attracted attention of the "wrong" persons.

It is left to mention that it wasn't the regulatory authorities that had problems with that. Actually I met some folks from that authority at one of the concerts and they had the ticket numbers 0001, 0002 and 0003 ....
It became a problem after the politics got aware of it through media reports and tried to show their (in)competence ...
So the concerts were toned down or forbidden not because of an actual legal problem, but the law is usualy formulated open for interpretation (intention is to avoid technology being faster than regulation or to have someone finding a combination that the lawmaker hasn't thought of) and through this interpretability the regulating authorities have a wide range for decissions.

vappiano68 wrote:Good morning, dear members!
...
1) New Eu laws:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]EN:PDF
...

If someone (like me) want to read this law in an other language, replace the code EN by an another code.
Per example, to read the text in french : [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]FR:PDF

To my knowledge, a European law must be transposed in all member countries of the EEC not to be in contradiction with existing national laws.
In which country, the legislative work ever done?

HvB wrote:on a totaly different and only slightly related discussion:
The Rockbitch song fcn2011 means 'Fist Fuck'.
For those that wanna know a bit more: [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
and yes, the concerts were quite funny. Have seen them a few times ...

@FCN2011 & heistruett:

you speak probably about that one Rockbitch report at Tracks on Arte which was aired the first time when the band existed and was repeated several times in the following years. of course is this an example for what is shown on a so called or wanted cultural channel but in general it shows more than the "sex sells" exists for the small channels, too.

that report is an even better example for what happens with too explicit content.
the funny concerts HvB spoke about were the concerts of their first tour (the so called "The Bitch Bites Back" tour in europe 1997). on that tour was the new (or renamed) band less known but the concerts were allowed only for adults and the passports were checked at the entrance. but also were different shows allowed in germany which means that HvB and I saw a different shows than e.g. the viewers in Munich. because of that tour and the reports about Rockbitch became famous in a special way and also known at the governments and the regulators. the next germany tour from Rockbitch was (iirc) three years later and compared to the first tour was that show only a kindergarten show because most of the content of the first tour was forbidden now.

so Rochbitch are also a good example for different handling of the same rules in one country and what can happen to someone when the rules are getting stricter or someone attracted attention of the "wrong" persons.

HvB wrote:
on a totaly different and only slightly related discussion:
The Rockbitch song fcn2011 means 'Fist Fuck'.
For those that wanna know a bit more: [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
and yes, the concerts were quite funny. Have seen them a few times ...



Hey HvB!
Here is the vid to FIST FUCK:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
Rock `n` Roll!

I know,this is not the purpose of this topic...

just some notes:
I mostly agree with Vappianos research on porn, except, that as mentioned, the protection of minors doesn't focus on porn alone.
Also you should note that the simulated acts will also be banned when they are performed with bananas or other stuff if their intention is sexual stimulation of the viewer.
On the 'Sexual Acts' part of Vappianos post: did anyone read anywhere that the genitals must be uncovered? The rules also apply when they wear a burqa ...

The pubcasters are not comparable as they have, as a semi state-run institution, their own supervision (called Programmbeirat, that consists of 'society relavant groups and institutions'=christian churches and political parties) and the KJM is, like the Landesmedienanstalten and the pubcasters, financed from the general fee one has to pay when you own a device capable of receiving TV/radio. So acting on the pubcasters may also harm the financing of the KJM ...

on a totaly different and only slightly related discussion:
The Rockbitch song fcn2011 means 'Fist Fuck'.
For those that wanna know a bit more: [Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
and yes, the concerts were quite funny. Have seen them a few times ...

keeper64 wrote:

TimMcGee wrote:

vappiano68 wrote:Censorship (and all that is connected to censorship) is the subject, and I think we need an appropriate thread to discuss it, because too many times we speak about the low quality of the shows, blaming censorship for this.

It's simple: If the models perform good and show everything for free, ETV will not have many gold members.
If the models show less, more viewers will be curious and buy gold membership. That's why ETV decreases the quality of the shows.

case solved and closed.

quite conceivable

The history of satellite television has shown that when small hot TV have focused on the subscriptions have died

danielsex wrote:Vappiano68 and your opinion on explicit vision of sexysat?

I'm not expert about Sexysat.