Eurotic TV - General Discussion

cirano wrote:...
@ Joker1305
It is an ECONOMIC FAILURE because, apart from those we're talking about, they have not been able to gain up a large base of regular customers.
It is a PROFESSIONAL FAILURE because many of their customers (including myself) did not renew the credits on their accounts and is not satisfied with the quality of the webshows.
Remember: no successful business can stand on its customers' dissatisfaction.

Well, every company has the problem not all customers are satisfied. If the number of dissatisfied customers is getting too high they have the option to improve the product or to skip it.
As ETV appearantly doesn't change anything with the web shows at the moment they seem to be within their expectations.

It is also an ETHICAL FAILURE, because their behavior towards more naive customers, is very close to the "circumvention of an incapable" which is considered a crime in European jurisdictions.

Good laugh. They offer a service with defined prices. Everybody can decide himself not to spend any money on that. For me a Porsche or a Ferrari is not worth it's price. Can I proceed against them?

Regards
Joker

cirano wrote:I point to the moon and you look at my finger.
: D

PS: In the human history, when more people recognize themselves in the same ideas, they define themselves as WE.
But, of course, a troll can't knows these human things. I was just waiting for a troll...

and how would you call a group of trolls joining their efforts because they cannot accomplish anything by themselves?

and still not accomplish anything but be a little annoying

I point to the moon and you look at my finger.
: D

PS: In the human history, when more people recognize themselves in the same ideas, they define themselves as WE.
But, of course, a troll can't knows these human things. I was just waiting for a troll...

cirano wrote:Some questions. Some answers.

Who is "we" ?
@ eigentor
We are all those who have been called "the bad guys", of course: the silent majority (not always silent) who doesn't like how etv web stuff is made.
You know us (also very well)... : D

and why is that evidence of anything?
@ Mr_Niceguy
I'm sorry, Mr. Niceguy, to bring to your knowledge that one evidence is you.

Well, if they squeeze those who want to be squeezed, why is it a failure?
@ Joker1305
It is an ECONOMIC FAILURE because, apart from those we're talking about, they have not been able to gain up a large base of regular customers.
It is a PROFESSIONAL FAILURE because many of their customers (including myself) did not renew the credits on their accounts and is not satisfied with the quality of the webshows.
Remember: no successful business can stand on its customers' dissatisfaction.
It is also an ETHICAL FAILURE, because their behavior towards more naive customers, is very close to the "circumvention of an incapable" which is considered a crime in European jurisdictions.

By the way, how can you judge the quality of the shows if you aren't customer?
@ Joker1305
I'm sure even you have heard of a thing called "the web"...

Firstly, I find it fascinating that you can give such authoritative answers for questions directed at 'lucifer70'. It makes me wonder whether there is just one 'we' with multiple personalities.
The only 'evidence' I see is of someone desperate to create trouble here.
The only 'failure' I see is that of someone unable to present any justification to their statements and thereby have to resort to insults.
From you final reply, can I take it that you view pirated copies of the show? And that this gives you some form of exemption from the status of 'customer' since you make no financial contribution?
Hmmm ... I can think of other words to describe that behaviour.

Some questions. Some answers.

Who is "we" ?
@ eigentor
We are all those who have been called "the bad guys", of course: the silent majority (not always silent) who doesn't like how etv web stuff is made.
You know us (also very well)... : D

and why is that evidence of anything?
@ Mr_Niceguy
I'm sorry, Mr. Niceguy, to bring to your knowledge that one evidence is you.

Well, if they squeeze those who want to be squeezed, why is it a failure?
@ Joker1305
It is an ECONOMIC FAILURE because, apart from those we're talking about, they have not been able to gain up a large base of regular customers.
It is a PROFESSIONAL FAILURE because many of their customers (including myself) did not renew the credits on their accounts and is not satisfied with the quality of the webshows.
Remember: no successful business can stand on its customers' dissatisfaction.
It is also an ETHICAL FAILURE, because their behavior towards more naive customers, is very close to the "circumvention of an incapable" which is considered a crime in European jurisdictions.

By the way, how can you judge the quality of the shows if you aren't customer?
@ Joker1305
I'm sure even you have heard of a thing called "the web"...

lucifer70 wrote:...

This is the evidence of what we've always said, the web is a total failure, it only serves to squeeze those who want to be squeezed...

Well, if they squeeze those who want to be squeezed, why is it a failure?

By the way, how can you judge the quality of the shows if you aren't customer?

Regards
Joker

and why is that evidence of anything?

lucifer70 wrote:This is the evidence of what we've always said, the web is a total failure...

Who is "we" ?

outside wrote:Just to have some fun:
some time ago I had this discussion with HvB (as it happened many times, this is not the point), featuring Vappiano, about some script he invited me to send ETVShow:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
now if I wanted to send them a script I would have to pay 90€.

This is the evidence of what we've always said, the web is a total failure, it only serves to squeeze those who want to be squeezed.
No show.
No art.
No eroticism.
No fancy.
Only a desperate search for someone to pluck.

Regards

Just to have some fun:
some time ago I had this discussion with HvB (as it happened many times, this is not the point), featuring Vappiano, about some script he invited me to send ETVShow:
[Versteckter Link - Registrierung notwendig]
now if I wanted to send them a script I would have to pay 90€.

zxcv wrote:
...
Because eventually , The symbolic level could save such a huge and wide area which in the end will certainly compensate the other unreachable area
...

Sorry for putting this out of context, but this reminds me of something.
No offense, but this sentence sounds a bit like one of ETV's descriptions of their web shows, like an excuse for not providing anything remotely sexy.

Description for tonight's Premium:
Actor's training that when set in the right way will provoke a truly erotic show:
Excitement, rage, lust, loneliness, joy, jealousy.
The body has its own language that doesn't need to be translated.

Blah blah blah....lust and joy is sufficient, no need for loneliness, rage, jealousy in an erotic show.
IMO there is a good chance for another odd one-hour pantomime theater.
Gonna watch anyway, because Mashi is in it.

Watcher wrote:My thoughts:
Could any viewer come up with sufficient ideas, within the current strict bounds, to create an interesting hour long show?
Then again, it could be seen as a challenge to all those critics who know how it should be done .

The answer would be yes ....There are many viewers who still have many ideas ( and also have the full readiness to pay ) .....which could be executed not only .....for one hour but also for a complete show for five hours .

So , to be honest and positive , The initial idea is not bad at all ...to provide a special show built upon your own ideas

And there is no problem with the strict bounds which limited the models actions in any kind of erotic shows.....Because eventually , The symbolic level could save such a huge and wide area which in the end will certainly compensate the other unreachable area

But the reservations will always existed specially when you deal directly with ETV stuff ....

For example ...

if I want certain models to perform certain roles ...would this happens ( for sure I won't ask for something which will break the rules or something vulgar )

Will the show stuff follow the script which has been agreed upon from both parties ......or they will do it their way . as the case has always been and provide us with another version of " their Molivian art "

As I mentioned above ...the initial idea is not bad at all ....But the reality is different thing .....specially when you talk about ETV stuff , shows and new experiments .

hello Is 50 credits the lowest amount to buy Im not Yabadabadooy! Ive used 12 in last 3 weeks so if i dont use my credits in 3 months their gone right?

verve66 wrote:Hello my first post, I read on the wall of the site Eurotic who want to do the shows has to pay 90 € for a single person do you think of this initiative
greetings

Firstly, a quote from the ETVshow Wall to set the context:

"Simone: Hello, friends of ETV. I wanted to ask if it's possible to see soon a Internet show (from 16:00) with Jessyca or Tara, dressed as sexy secretaries. Thanks, Simone

ETV Team's answer: Since you want a special show, we would be glad to make a Premium Hour especially for you, at 16:00. The price for this experiment is 90 euro. You should first tell us what your wishes or requirements are, or a script that you might have. We can discuss it and find the best way to make your show."

My thoughts:
Could any viewer come up with sufficient ideas, within the current strict bounds, to create an interesting hour long show?
Then again, it could be seen as a challenge to all those critics who know how it should be done .
Put your money where your mouth is ...
Any takers? ...
No, I thought not .

I'd prefer to be schematic and I will try to give you an exaustive answer. Some words will be in bold to get evidenced, it doesn't mean shout. Anyway if there is some point you need to deepen, just let me know, it's late and it's weekend so I know something could slip out.

1.Firstofall I think I have the right to put in my blacklist whoever I want and because of whatever reason, it's my baby, it's my blacklist, a blacklist of a viewer, a simple viewer, maybe with some kind of influence (I know, I am a bit presumptuous), but it's always my thought, not a goverment official statement. It's like beller stats. I name the listed girls, I give reasons why, you have the right to agree or disagree. Sorry, but you haven't the right to tell me even what I should post about. Is here still freedom of speech or not? Just let me know.

2.You made Kristina example, I think that her small presence in etvgirls.com was minimal, marginal and not peculiar of her stint at ETV.
Elmar did many premium shows before her first nightshows and she couldn't be compared to the girls I have named. And let's not forget etvgirls.com was far different from ETVGold-ETVShow project, the point is webshows have been the core business since that project has been launched. Since Elmar did many premiums before her first nightshow appearance (and if I remember correct, but I could fail, it's late, she did almost nothing in her first NS appearance), all issues about shyness, being confortable and so on aren't reliable anymore (never reliable to me). Elmar soon showed she was ready for a nightshow but she preferred to gain extra money with premiums, because this was the purpose she has been made from management.They wanted to re-vitalize a dead business putting the newbies into that. Now she isn't a newbie anymore, so she could be dumped to TV. This features weren't in 2008, comparison with girls like Carmen doesn't fit too.

3.I have the right to criticize TV shows even I haven't ever called, and of course I also have the right to criticize webshows, even if I have never bought one, because, this is the main point, webshows misappropriate assets from TV shows. Maybe it's hard because we speak different languages, but I have the right to criticize both TV and web, my critics to webshows are legitimated also because webshows impact negatively to tv shows. They are two related worlds. It's impossible to talk about the former without talking about the latter too. Same models, same staffers, same studios, same people who send sms, same everything. And I would add even same viewers (this would always be the funniest part of the story). When I talk about assets misappropriation I talk just about that. The point is they haven't put the same effort they put for webshows in TV shows. But of course they failed. I have watched some premium shows (even some of most claimed here) and I could point none of them deserved even one credit. None. Nightshows, even often bad, are basically hotter that every premium show ever aired. Do you know why? Because of molvanian law that doesn't allow to produce porn content, even HvB admitted they often are borderline. They still live rent from the past, from the good old days in vector videos (maybe not so good when Janine appears). I could add quality level of TV show has been improved in last two weeks, maybe because even Ivo has realized there was some problem about that and he knows webshows would die without TV incomes and shopcase.
Anyway, I repeat, I have the right to criticize everything, even Galileo's assumptions about universe. Don't make me play the intellectual who citates Voltaire.

4.About my blacklist: I had to choose this term because the italian term (paracula) is untranstalable in english, anyway this list feature girls who act in different ways for first class and economic, I had just pointed Elmar was on the right way to be erased from that list, so my last morning post was of appreciation and the names in the list aren't permanent. Just one example, Mashiara has never been in that list, even though I don't like many things about her, but she makes no differences and gives her best. She has been consistant. And I appreciate that, I have pointed even last morning.

5.Blacklist is not an insult at all, neither direct nor indirect ("indirect insult" is nothing than a rethorical, insult is direct by definition, just allow me and I would show my best ) and I think it has sense because there are girls who don't work (as you say) to keep the channel and fta shows alive. Respect has two features in my mind: firstofall it is mutual and then is something you have to gain, you don't have in absolute. Blacklisted girls, Alice (the chairwoman, because she did even some lectures in eroticism in Carrie style), Jade and Rose (the vice-presidents aka The Girls In Balaclava), Mimi (false as her boobs) Tara (the empty freezing cell) don't work to keep alive the fta show at all. They were unrespectful versus TV viewers. So they won't ever gain my respect (of course as ETV models, we are always talking about that, not about their private life). Elmar, as I have already pointed, has been on the right way to be removed from that list. I usually give Caesar what is Caesar's. Talking about pencil and eraser was a way to ackowledge that. What I ask isn't "to show off for free" (one more time you use same ETVShow arguments), even though we are always talking about an erotic channel, not about a cheesy chat, so this request would be even legitimate, what I ask is consistant attitude in both worlds. There are many models who act consistantly both in TV and in web and there's nothing to discuss about that. What I ask is stop hypocrisy, if Rose or Jade say they are shy on TV and then they act as camgirls on web I feel offended by them, they had no respect to viewers (not-members people), so why viewers should respect them? Were you here when Polascan discovered there was "Miss Shyness" Inga at Flirt4Free in 2007? Do you remember about the reaction here? It's the same thing, the one difference is now is always ETVShow. Do you remember how Ira and Brown were treated about the failed (as usual) webshow? They are the first at do not giving respect to their employees. They took advantage about two young girls (Brown is probably the youngest in the whole roster) and made them as scapegoat. They did the same even with Carrie, because it was functional to them in that moment. I didn't like at all Carrie's attitude but I liked even less how she has been treated from management, another easy scapegoat. Anyway, carrie out of nightshows could be a good deal. What I gonna do in their position? Simply I would walk away, as many girls already did. And I hope Kristina too. ETV isn't the one and only job on the earth. No job is forever, DB once said. Even Kaleya, even Sabrina (that's incredible) have found their way outside. I haven't been a journalist since the beginning, I started as marketing accountant and then I changed. Many former ETV girls have found their way outside ETV and now they are happy. Even though ETV is as a "scarlet letter" in Molvania and ETV looks like a lodge who binds there forever.

6.About money and its value, you put in the same cauldron many different things, I don't like minestrone, even though it's a typical italian dish. So let me know, if I hadn't Sky or Mediaset Premium (italian operators, Sat and DTT) subscription I couldn't talk about football? I accept and agree the general principle but this doesn't apply to ETVShow since they haven't been ever fair. ETV show core business is not offering a good TV show but is to pluck from a short number of customers (rich customers, who also have reserved deal to buy a large amount of credits) till the last feather. They also brainwashed the customers with all that bullshit about "first class" and "economic class". TVShow is something they have to do, because (they even admitted) if they would close the sat webshows would last max a couple of weeks. They are unrespectful versus fta viewers (not members) , that are always (less one, of course me, not a matter of money, I would never give them my personal data) potential customers. If ETVShow isn't able to stay fairly on the market, it has to close, we'll do a reason about that, we already have a couple of ideas to reconvert italian forum. And maybe for some molvanian people it would be a big chance to get a life outside ETVShow.
P.S. no one talked about "custom shows" experiment? Just 90€uros. Clips4Sale is cheaper. And even a real woman.

Bottom line: sorry if I was long.